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Boot UBCD4win from a USB Hard Drive (HDD)

#1 User is offline   duckxtales Icon

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    Post icon  Posted 03 August 2005 - 10:28 PM

    I have searched for hours and I cant find anything solid that shows me how to make my USB Hard Drive bootable with usbcd4win on it.

    One thing that I tried was just copy a old win98 bootdisk onto the main partition of the usb hdd and that works, but i have no clue how would i do it for this. :o

    actually come to think of it.. what I really need to do is transfer this bootable CD I have here onto a USB drive. I downloaded a premade version of ubcd4win but its in iso format... the cd boots fine, but i want to be able to load it up on my usb drive.

    This post has been edited by duckxtales: 03 August 2005 - 10:35 PM

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    #2 User is offline   cray1000 Icon

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      Posted 04 August 2005 - 12:00 AM

      duckxtales, on Aug 3 2005, 11:28 PM, said:

      I have searched for hours and I cant find anything solid that shows me how to make my USB Hard Drive bootable with usbcd4win on it.

      One thing that I tried was just copy a old win98 bootdisk onto the main partition of the usb hdd and that works, but i have no clue how would i do it for this.  :o

      actually come to think of it.. what I really need to do is transfer this bootable CD I have here onto a USB drive. I downloaded a premade version of ubcd4win but its in iso format... the cd boots fine, but i want to be able to load it up on my usb drive.


      If you see the thread under steel trepids thoughts, we are currently discussing this and it turns out this can't be done. Windows disconnected the usb during the boot process. There is a way if you have it load the memory stick to ram, but that wont work i doubt on a hard drive unless you got 20gb of ram +
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      #3 User is offline   pcuser Icon

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        Posted 04 August 2005 - 12:14 AM

        THIS thread gives detailed instructions on how to do this. One thing to note is that you do have to actually load the entire ISO image into ram before booting it. As of right now, it's the only way to get around the fact that the usb bus gets reset during the boot process.

        Quote

        I downloaded a premade version of ubcd4win but its in iso format


        Where did you download this from?

        Tom
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        #4 User is offline   SteelTrepid Icon

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          Posted 04 August 2005 - 08:50 AM

          pcuser, on Aug 4 2005, 01:14 AM, said:

          Where did you download this from?

          I was thinking of asking this too, but I'm sure there isn't much we can do about it. About a year ago I remember finding 1.3 available in ISO download. 2.0 and 2.1 were released and the ISO was never updated so I was a bit happy about that.

          eBay auctions of the project have begun to "take off" again, I've contacted a few of them.
          "I play Russian roulette everyday, a man's sport, with a bullet called life"

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          #5 User is offline   Boomer1961 Icon

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            Posted 27 May 2007 - 12:39 AM

            View Postduckxtales, on Aug 3 2005, 08:28 PM, said:

            I have searched for hours and I cant find anything solid that shows me how to make my USB Hard Drive bootable with usbcd4win on it.

            One thing that I tried was just copy a old win98 bootdisk onto the main partition of the usb hdd and that works, but i have no clue how would i do it for this. :o

            actually come to think of it.. what I really need to do is transfer this bootable CD I have here onto a USB drive. I downloaded a premade version of ubcd4win but its in iso format... the cd boots fine, but i want to be able to load it up on my usb drive.



            Just thought I would bump this thread.

            Just registered, thought that this project would be cool on an external HD.

            Searched the posts, saw the thumb drive project with hit or miss success.

            This thread was the closest to the install on external USB 2 hard drive.

            The answer two years ago was only if you had a small iso of this project and allot of RAM on the target machine (the theory to make it work) and allot of time to figure out the details.

            Is there any change to this answer after two years. Can this windows based OS boot from an external HD like some of the linux OS can do and solutions readily available.

            This app/project is more attuned with windows based machine needs so that would be great. My experience with boot CD's is they are way way way way way to slow booting and using.

            Any updates from the senior members here of any successes to an external HD install? :blink:
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            #6 User is offline   rdsok Icon

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              Posted 27 May 2007 - 02:06 AM

              We can't really provide any solid answers on this yet. There are still too many variables that each system has. It took many years for the industry to finally to settle on and develop a reliable CD boot solution and the same issues are now still being "hashed out" in the USB areas. There are still a lot of areas to address...

              I guess I'll start with the USB devices themselves... there is basically two major types. Ones that emulate a hard drive device and ones that emulate a floppy. Each of these two types do not have a solid standard set so each manufacturer can and does interprete these standards slightly differently resulting in each one acting slightly differently which makes it hard to be reliable in the boot process.

              On the motherboard side of things... most if not all motherboards do now support booting from USB devices... but again like the devices... each manufacturer interprets how this happens. Again, because of the differnent interpretations... its sort of like a jungling act.

              Now... the OS itself... Using XP or before... the operating systems always reset the USB bus during the boot process... this means that as it boots suddenly it ( the OS ) can't access itself causing issues. This is one reason why loading to ram, like done with the ISO's, are popular... but still a work around. Win2003 and Vista do not do this. So in the future, this part of the puzzle is solved in the Windows areana. This area isn't really the problem like the hardware area is though because each OS is set and standardized on how it works with USB devices...

              So we are still left to the user finding out which combination of device, motherboard, OS and process used to boot or create the bootable device, will end up working for their situation. If the manufactures of the hardware... the USB devices and motherboards... can settle on the standards for both the floppy emulation and hard drive emulation... then the issue will finally be solved.
              Plan A is always more effective when the device you are working on understands that Plan B involves either a large hammer or screwdriver....
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              #7 User is offline   cdob Icon

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                Posted 27 May 2007 - 11:19 AM

                @Boomer1961

                UBCD4Win does boot from USB. A external HD is possible.
                There is \minint folder or RAM loading solution.

                However as rdsok mentioned already, USB booting require BIOS support.
                Different BIOS require different USB boot preparations and solutions.
                There is no general solution, because there are different BIOS implementations.
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                #8 User is offline   masterchi Icon

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                  Posted 27 May 2007 - 06:05 PM

                  Quote

                  Now... the OS itself... Using XP or before... the operating systems always reset the USB bus during the boot process... this means that as it boots suddenly it ( the OS ) can't access itself causing issues. This is one reason why loading to ram, like done with the ISO's, are popular... but still a work around. Win2003 and Vista do not do this.


                  Correct. That is one of the reasons why on the current working method of USB booting for UBCD4WIN is replacing the three XP files that do reset with Server 2003 files that won't reset the USB ports (NTDETECT.COM, SETUPLDR.BIN, and RAMDISK.SY_) and we have had great luck with this configuration. But again all the other factors also take a huge part of the problem which causes so many headaches.

                  My personal opinion is to continue using a CD/DVD until a USB drive can be more dependable and reliable on *All* systems like a CD is,or atleast i haven't run into a computer yet that my UBCD4WIN CD wouldn't boot from.
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                  #9 User is offline   Boomer1961 Icon

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                    Posted 29 May 2007 - 12:17 AM

                    View Postmasterchi, on May 27 2007, 04:05 PM, said:

                    Quote

                    Now... the OS itself... Using XP or before... the operating systems always reset the USB bus during the boot process... this means that as it boots suddenly it ( the OS ) can't access itself causing issues. This is one reason why loading to ram, like done with the ISO's, are popular... but still a work around. Win2003 and Vista do not do this.


                    Correct. That is one of the reasons why on the current working method of USB booting for UBCD4WIN is replacing the three XP files that do reset with Server 2003 files that won't reset the USB ports (NTDETECT.COM, SETUPLDR.BIN, and RAMDISK.SY_) and we have had great luck with this configuration. But again all the other factors also take a huge part of the problem which causes so many headaches.

                    My personal opinion is to continue using a CD/DVD until a USB drive can be more dependable and reliable on *All* systems like a CD is,or atleast i haven't run into a computer yet that my UBCD4WIN CD wouldn't boot from.


                    So, is the answer the same as the USB thumb drive? That it can be done and will work hit or miss?

                    And if so has anyone been successful?

                    Also the three 2003 server files, where do you come by those? do you require a licensed edition of 2003 or are they available anywhere.

                    I think I shall reread that USB thumbdrive boot thing again. It looks promising. Just thought I could load this with my ubuntu and whatever else I can think of on a spare usb hard drive that I have and that it would be way faster than a CD based OS though I see this has a Ramdisk option so at least after booting I am thinking this project is a little faster than most CD boot OS's.

                    Thanks for everyone's comments and take care everyone!
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                    #10 User is offline   masterchi Icon

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                      Posted 29 May 2007 - 02:26 AM

                      Quote

                      So, is the answer the same as the USB thumb drive? That it can be done and will work hit or miss?

                      Yes since it is still trying to boot from a USB port so the result is just as mixed from a flash drive or a USB HDD in an external case. Brings up curiosity if a Firewire or ESATA drive would give us this much trouble? I'd assume eSATA drives would boot just like a normal HDD since it's using the SATA hub but thats definitly something i want to try out. Now on the matter of a FireWire drive.....i am equally curious. Off to testing for me if i can find a cheap eSATA or Firewire drive.

                      Quote

                      And if so has anyone been successful?

                      Yes, I have been successful on USB Thumbdrive booting on multiple platforms (desktops and laptops of Dell and HP)

                      Quote

                      Also the three 2003 server files, where do you come by those? do you require a licensed edition of 2003 or are they available anywhere.

                      You can do the searching yourself but Microsoft has a free 120 day trial Server 2003 OS you can download and from there you can grab the 3 files. I cannot and will not distribute them for fear of the all powerful MS lawyers since i'm sure it would be illegal for me to do that.

                      Quote

                      I think I shall reread that USB thumbdrive boot thing again. It looks promising. Just thought I could load this with my ubuntu and whatever else I can think of on a spare usb hard drive that I have and that it would be way faster than a CD based OS though I see this has a Ramdisk option so at least after booting I am thinking this project is a little faster than most CD boot OS's.

                      It is faster but it all depends on the speed of the memory. I ran across one system with a gig of 133 MHZ ram and it was just as fast as CD but when i ran across memory speeds of 533MHz it was lightning speed so it all just depends on memory speed. One cavaet of booting to thumbdrive is you will not have the boot menu, it will just boot to UBCD4WIN with no memtest86 or Offline Password Recovery boot options but that is just one thing to live with for the convenience of the speed i guess.

                      Quote

                      Thanks for everyone's comments and take care everyone!

                      Oh no, Thank You. You spurred up some curiousity in me if eSATA or Firewire drives would give us this much trouble if any at all. Thanks.

                      This post has been edited by masterchi: 29 May 2007 - 02:29 AM

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                      #11 User is offline   m.limmer Icon

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                        Posted 30 May 2007 - 01:24 AM

                        I do have a bootable version of UBCD4WIN on my USB Stick. Currently I'm using an "Apacer HANDY SENO HT203"-usb stick with 2 GB of space.

                        The main way of making your USB Stick bootable, or better said preparing it for booting a PE Version (UBCD4WIN, BartPE etc.), is the following:

                        1.) Download the Hitachi Microdrive Filter (from XPEfiles.com). --> Download!

                        When you install this driver for your usb stick it will be displayed and treated as a fixed (-a local) disk, not a removable. This way you can format the Stick with the Windows Partition manager and e.g. split up your usb stick in as many partitions as you like.

                        When you downloaded the filters from XPEfiles, extract the contents to a hard drive. Open cfadisk.inf and edit the following section:

                        [cfadisk_device]
                        %Microdrive_devdesc% = cfadisk_install,IDE\DiskIBM-DSCM-11000__________________________SC2IC801
                        %Microdrive_devdesc% = cfadisk_install,IDE\DiskIBM-DSCM-11000__________________________SC2IC815
                        %Microdrive_devdesc% = cfadisk_install,IDE\DiskIBM-DSCM-11000__________________________SC2IC915
                        
                        %Microdrive_devdesc% = cfadisk_install,IDE\DiskIBM-DSCM-10512__________________________SC1IC801
                        %Microdrive_devdesc% = cfadisk_install,IDE\DiskIBM-DSCM-10512__________________________SC1IC815
                        %Microdrive_devdesc% = cfadisk_install,IDE\DiskIBM-DSCM-10512__________________________SC1IC915
                        
                        %Microdrive_devdesc% = cfadisk_install,IDE\DiskIBM-DMDM-10340__________________________MD2IC501
                        %Microdrive_devdesc% = cfadisk_install,IDE\DiskIBM-DMDM-10340__________________________MD2IC601
                        
                        ; debug on VMWare/special drive
                        ; %Microdrive_devdesc% = cfadisk_install,IDE\DiskVMware_Virtual_IDE_Hard_Drive___________00000001
                        ; %Microdrive_devdesc% = cfadisk_install,IDE\DiskIC25N040ATCS04-0________________________CA4OA71A

                        to
                        [cfadisk_device]
                        %Microdrive_devdesc% = cfadisk_install,


                        Now add ID specific to your usb stick. To find the ID insert your USB stick and use REGEDIT to check the value for your device in HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\ControlSet001\Enum\USBSTOR registry key

                        For Kingston DataTraveler the key is HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\ControlSet001\Enum\USBSTOR\Disk&Ven_Kingston&Prod_DataTraveler_2.0&Rev_PMAP

                        There will be an entry under a subkey for HardwareID. Open this and there will be a string of values - for the kingston Datatraveller values are:
                        USBSTOR\DiskKingstonDataTraveler_2.0PMAP
                        USBSTOR\DiskKingstonDataTraveler_2.0
                        USBSTOR\DiskKingston
                        USBSTOR\KingstonDataTraveler_2.0P
                        KingstonDataTraveler_2.0P
                        USBSTOR\GenDisk
                        GenDisk


                        We only need to use the first value in the HardwareID string - in this case USBSTOR\DiskKingstonDataTraveler_2.0PMAP. Now copy this value into the [cfadisk_device] section in cfadisk.inf. My new cfadisk.inf contains the following code:
                        [Version]
                        Signature="$Windows NT$"
                        Class=DiskDrive
                        ClassGuid={4D36E967-E325-11CE-BFC1-08002BE10318}
                        Provider=%HGST%
                        LayoutFile=layout.inf
                        DriverVer=12/14/2002,1.00.0000.1
                        
                        [Manufacturer]
                        %HGST% = cfadisk_device
                        
                        [DestinationDirs]
                        cfadisk_copyfiles=12 ; %SystemRoot%\system32\drivers
                        gendisk_copyfiles=12 ; %SystemRoot%\system32\drivers
                        
                        [cfadisk_copyfiles]
                        cfadisk.sys
                        
                        [gendisk_copyfiles]
                        disk.sys
                        
                        ; ---------------------
                        
                        [cfadisk_device]
                        %Microdrive_devdesc% = cfadisk_install,USBSTOR\DiskKingstonDataTraveler_2.0PMAP
                        
                        [cfadisk_addreg]
                        HKR,,"LowerFilters",0x00010008,"cfadisk"
                        
                        [cfadisk_install]
                        CopyFiles=cfadisk_copyfiles,gendisk_copyfiles
                        
                        [cfadisk_install.HW]
                        AddReg=cfadisk_addreg
                        
                        [cfadisk_install.Services]
                        AddService=disk,2,gendisk_ServiceInstallSection
                        AddService=cfadisk,,cfadisk_ServiceInstallSection
                        
                        [gendisk_ServiceInstallSection]
                        DisplayName     = "Disk Driver"
                        ServiceType     = 1
                        StartType         = 0
                        ErrorControl   = 1
                        ServiceBinary  = %12%\disk.sys
                        LoadOrderGroup = SCSI Class
                        
                        [cfadisk_ServiceInstallSection]
                        DisplayName     = "CompactFlash Filter Driver"
                        ServiceType     = 1
                        StartType         = 3
                        ErrorControl   = 1
                        ServiceBinary  = %12%\cfadisk.sys
                        LoadOrderGroup = Pnp Filter
                        
                        ; -----------------------
                        
                        [Strings]
                        HGST = "Hitachi Global Storage Technologies"
                        Microdrive_devdesc = "Hitachi Microdrive"


                        Once cfadisk.inf has been edited with your ID string you will need to update the driver in windows. Open Device manager and check for your USB drive in "Disk Drives". Right click on the entry for your drive and select option to update driver.

                        * Don't use windows update
                        * Install from a list or specific location
                        * Don't search. I will choose the driver to install
                        * Have disk
                        * Browse to location of edited cfadisk.inf

                        Update and restart windows

                        If the driver installed successfully your USB stick should now be mounted as a Local Disk not Removable Disk


                        2.) Download the HP USB Disk Storage Format Tool from the Hewlett-Packard Company (HPUSBFW.EXE). --> Download!

                        Format your USB Stick like this:

                        Device = your USB Drive
                        File System = FAT
                        Leave all other settings empty
                        START


                        3.) Download GrubInstall (Dateien.zip). --> Download!

                        Extract the archive Dateien.zip to your hard drive. The only files that are important for you are the following:
                        ----\grubinst\grubinst_gui.exe
                        ----\grubinst\grldr
                        ----menu.lst (<-- Entries in the menu.lst will be displayed in the multiboot menu of grub4dos.)
                        ----memtest.bin (<-- Only necessary if you want to integrate memtest in your multiboot menu. If you do, simply copy it with grldr and menu.lst to the root of your USB Stick. If you don't want to integrate memtest, just leave it alone (i.e. don't copy it to your USB Stick) and remove the multiboot-entry for memtest in your menu.lst!)


                        Run grubinst_gui.exe. Select "Disk". Your USB Stick as well as your local hard drive will be displayed as (hd0) or (hd1). Find out which one is your USB Stick by removing and reconnecting your USB Stick. Leave all other settings empty and hit Install.
                        This will install the grub4dos mbr to your USB Stick. Now simply copy the files grldr and menu.lst to the root of your USB Stick.
                        Open the menu.lst with the notepad and remove the following entry:
                        title Vista PE
                        find --set-root /bootmgr
                        chainloader /bootmgr


                        Now change the following entry:
                        title LiveXP
                        find --set-root /i386/SETUPLDR.BIN
                        chainloader /i386/SETUPLDR.BIN +1

                        to
                        title UBCD4WIN
                        find --set-root /minint/SETUPLDR.BIN
                        chainloader /minint/SETUPLDR.BIN +1


                        This way you change the name in the boot menu from LiveXP to UBCD4WIN.
                        You have to replace i386 with minint because when copying UBCD4WIN to your USB Stick with the plugin peinst, peinst will automatically rename the folder i386 to minint.


                        4.) Install UBCD4WIN to your USB Stick.

                        Now start the UBCD4WINbuilder.exe and build a version of UBCD4WIN. When this process has finished, navigate to \UBCD4WIN\BartPE\programs\peinst\ and run peinst.cmd.

                        1. --> Enter 1 to change the source path of your BartPE files. Simply drag and drop the folder \UBCD4WIN\BartPE\ in the peinst command window.
                        2. --> Enter 2 to change the target path. This should be the root of your USB Stick. Thus simply enter the drive letter of your USB Stick (e.g. H:).
                        3. --> Enter 5 and then 1 to install UBCD4WIN to your USB Stick.

                        As soon as peinst finished copying all the files to you USB Stick you are only one step away from your own bootable UBCD4WIN-USB-Stick:
                        Navigate to the \minint\-folder on your USB Stick and copy the files ntdetect.com and txtsetup.sif to the root of your USB Stick. You will have to overwrite the ntdetect.com which already exists in the root of your USB Stick.


                        5.) You have successfully created your own bootable USB Stick with UBCD4WIN on it!!!

                        Now simply restart your computer and set your USB Stick as the first boot device. Select UBCD4WIN from the multiboot menu and boot it goddamn!!!


                        I hope this is a help to those who try to boot UBCD4WIN from their USB Stick.
                        Wish to ask me something?

                        Get me at:

                        Mail: --> [email protected]
                        ICQ: --> 166177281
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                        #12 User is offline   Boomer1961 Icon

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                          Posted 30 May 2007 - 01:42 AM

                          So I guess from the responses....

                          NO SUCCESS YET FROM EXTERNAL HARD DRIVE! :( :(

                          Some success with USB thumb drive... :boxing:

                          OK...


                          If anyone gets an external HD to boot let me know....

                          This would be the uber app if not just limited to CD though that is cool enough and I see allot of good work here in figuring this stuff out. Really great that we use the MS stuff all ready paid for and that we own. That Bart fellow sure is allot smarter than I will ever be......

                          For now I guess I will settle for Ubununtu from external HD for alternate boot ups from external HD.

                          Thanks everyone!

                          and if anyone does get an external HD to boot with this project please post how you did it....

                          This post has been edited by Boomer1961: 30 May 2007 - 01:43 AM

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                          #13 User is offline   masterchi Icon

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                            Posted 30 May 2007 - 02:12 AM

                            @Boomer - Um what? They both go through a USB port so its basically the same thing. Have you even tried the steps mentioned above by other users? I don't have an external HDD to test yet but my assumptions are that it still goes through a USB port so it should be close if not exactly the same procedures as the USB jump drive methods. Try it and find out or someone donate a USB external drive to me and i'll test these methods out and let you know how it goes.
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                            #14 User is offline   m.limmer Icon

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                              Posted 30 May 2007 - 04:54 AM

                              View PostBoomer1961, on May 30 2007, 08:42 AM, said:

                              So I guess from the responses....

                              NO SUCCESS YET FROM EXTERNAL HARD DRIVE! :( :(

                              Bull****!

                              View Postmasterchi, on May 30 2007, 09:12 AM, said:

                              @Boomer - Um what? They both go through a USB port so its basically the same thing.

                              Right! Basically it's the same so it should work. And it DOES work. I tried it buddy!

                              View Postmasterchi, on May 30 2007, 09:12 AM, said:

                              @Boomer [. . .] Have you even tried the steps mentioned above by other users?

                              Obviously not. Otherwise you would have experienced the sweet taste of success.

                              View Postmasterchi, on May 30 2007, 09:12 AM, said:

                              I don't have an external HDD to test yet [. . .]

                              But I do and I can tell you it worked for me. I used a 20GB external HDD!


                              So please try it out because posts like yours are not constructive in a single way. I put much effort into the tutorial and seeing you scream "Nobody can help me I'm so hopeless!" somehow disappoints me because the answer is right above your comment!
                              If you follow my instructions and still get no positive outcome, then show up again and report what exactly went wrong. Which error message did you get. Which one of my steps was not applicable.

                              We can only help you if you try hard and follow the advices you get from the helpful members of this forum. We need every little piece of information in order to solve your problem. Check every step you work off and don't let anything out because missing a detail can be fatal. A small mistake can ruin your whole project and we will not be able to spot the mistake you possibly made!

                              Good luck buddy.
                              Wish to ask me something?

                              Get me at:

                              Mail: --> [email protected]
                              ICQ: --> 166177281
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                              #15 User is offline   chuckr_jcr Icon

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                                Posted 30 May 2007 - 05:49 AM

                                View PostBoomer1961, on May 30 2007, 12:42 AM, said:

                                If anyone gets an external HD to boot let me know....

                                and if anyone does get an external HD to boot with this project please post how you did it....

                                Try to read this:

                                http://www.911cd.net...&...st&p=128238

                                and let us know what happened... :unsure:
                                "Inquiring minds would like to know..."
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