I would like to suggest that you change the current menu structure to match what you have in the "LIST OF TOOLS" section of your website.

I find that this is the one thing that I find myself making changes to and the LIST OF TOOLS section is pretty good. The only thing I think I would change is the Viewer section.

I would find it nice though that the Menu match the list of tools so that it is easy for me to look up and compare the website to the CD.

This is not a really important suggestion just a minor improvement in my opinion. My opinion is just that my opinion.

That is interesting... Steel has just recently updated the List of Tools page so now he may be thinking of re-ordering the menu to match, I'm not sure, but thanks for the suggestion.

I think think the viewers category is wrong too, what would you suggest ? I cannot remember why I choose it originally, maybe too many one item catergories ?

Check this thread
http://www.ubcd4win.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=1201

Yup, we just need to keep posting our ideas here now for this. I've had these past 2 days off from work, but been busy spending a little time with the family, still cleaning my office from the "painting fiasco" my wife started, and getting other things taken care of. Plus today I got my state taxes refund so I went shopping. New sonic game and desk chair for the boys, wireless keyboard & mouse and CD Burner for the wife, and new speakers for my computer!! So I haven't had the time to really think about this. I'm not asking you guys to do all the work for me, just wanting your suggestions, etc. I hope that spending time with the family these past 2 days will help me a little when I'm working ALL week long on the project next week!! Yeah, I love vacations! I guess you know you are a dork when you are looking forward to a vacation, knowing you will be at the computer working all week!!

I have provided Steel with updated XML files that change the menu structure to the same as the list of tools for the tools listed, except the SHELL area. I left these along for now.

In doing this I found some items that were not in the list of tools. These items I did not assign a area for.

As for the Viewers ( I would throw them in something Generic like Applications)

I will keep my information updated and posted as I find out more. Hopefully I can complete this in time for the next release.

Thanks lawson Applications sounds good. The list was done before Steel had updated the project with new apps. We need to get them into categories and up on the todo list, do you have a list of apps on the project that are missing categories ?.

So to sum up we have so far :-

• Antivirus
• Applications (Aka viewers)
• CD Burning Tools
• Disk Tools - Backup/Cloning
• Disk Tools - Defrag
• Disk Tools - Diagnostic
• Disk Tools - Partition
• Disk Tools - Security
• File Management - Explorers
• File Management - Recovery
• Malware Tools
• Network Tools
• Password Tools
• Registry Tools
• Shell Features
• System Information Tools - Information & Diagnostic Tools
• System Information Tools - Stress Test/Benchmark Tools

Not sure how hard it is too do, but could we add a beta sub-menu within each category to add semi working/untested in field progs to?
ie
Malware - Beta - Spybot (Semiworking prog that still requires some fixing)
Malware - Cwshredder (Fully working no known errors)

then each user knows that the progs there running in beta menu have issues and maybe someone can resolve them to take them out of beta ?.

PS not sure if cwshredder is fully working, just used as an example !.

Here is a list of XML files I have not edited (in other words either they don't exist in the list of tools or are part of the shell section).

copyhandler_nu2menu.xml
nu2shell_nu2menu.xml
freeundelete_nu2menu.xml
mbrfix_nu2menu.xml
diskimg_nu2menu.xml
IDEdrive_nu2menu.xml
autobackup_nu2menu.xml
ultrareader.xml
udevices_nu2menu.xml
peloader_nu2menu.xml
windirstat_nu2menu.xml
ultravnc_nu2menu.xml
PPPOE_nu2menu.xml -2k3
PPPOE_nu2menu.xml -XP
bartpe_nu2menu.xml
expressburn_nu2menu.xml
viewchmhlp_nu2menu.xml
penetcfg_nu2menu.xml
hdcleaner_nu2menu.xml
EZPCFix_nu2menu.xml
RecvMngr_nu2menu.xml
DriveErase_nu2menu.xml
sysclean_nu2menu.xml
peinst_nu2menu.xml
r-linux_nu2menu.xml
floppyrepair_nu2menu.xml
ras_nu2menu.xml
erunt_nu2menu.xml
popcorn_nu2menu.xml
scribe_nu2menu.xml
VncNeighborhood_nu2menu.xml
ShowTraf_nu2menu.xml
bginfo_nu2menu.xml
aspi_nu2menu.xml
keyboard_nu2menu.xml
unixutils_nu2menu.xml
geoshell_nu2menu.xml
ramdmenu.xml
mstsc_nu2menu.xml
autorun_nu2menu.xml
dskinv.xml



If what I believe you are asking is for a sub menu as in the disk tools section yes this is easy to do. As in the Disk Tools it was very very easy.

I have posted the zip file that over rights all the XML files and will structure what I have done on my website. Please look for it at jamielawson.com/ubcd/plugin_xml.zip (case sensitive)
This way anyone can use/examine or help with this if they would like.

Steel if you have a problem with this please let me know and I will take it down ASAP.

These look like programs to me, the others seem to be the shell.

freeundelete (File Management - Recovery)

mbrfix (Disk Tools - Partition)
diskimg (Disk Tools - Backup/Cloning)
autobackup (File Management - Backup ***NEW CATEGORY*** ???)
ultrareader (Applications)
ultravnc (Network Tools)
expressburn (CD Burning Applications)
hdcleaner
EZPCFix
DriveErase (Disk Management - Security)
sysclean
floppyrepair (Disk Management - Partition)
popcorn (What is this ?)
VncNeighborhood (Network Tools)

Can someone fill in the category blancs ?

Lawson once these rogue programs get categorised we'll update the xml menu. What does everyone think about having a beta sub menu, is this too much work. Personnelly I think it will help new users to the project get to grips with whats working 100% and whats not. If we do implement this we're going to need a list of programs which are not working 100% ?..

I would appreciate your thoughts steel, if you would like this ?.

Don't worry about doing too much in the XML files, I will do all of those on my system. I just basically am asking for suggestions to what categories we should have and where the software titles fit in them. It's easier for me to modify my files and make sure they work.

hdcleaner - clears hard drives, removes unnecessary files
EZPCFix - remote registry editor
sysclean - antivirus
popcorn - email client

Thanks steel, I think the only change me and lawson suggest to the category is

Viewers should be changed to applications
and I think we need one called File Management - Backup

So final cat list would be

Antivirus
Applications (Aka viewers)
CD Burning Tools
Disk Tools - Backup/Cloning
Disk Tools - Defrag
Disk Tools - Diagnostic
Disk Tools - Partition
Disk Tools - Security
File Management - Backup
File Management - Explorers
File Management - Recovery
Malware Tools
Network Tools
Password Tools
Registry Tools
Shell Features
System Information Tools - Information & Diagnostic Tools
System Information Tools - Stress Test/Benchmark Tools

Cool, now the only thing I worry about is the length of the menu titles.

DT - Backup/Cloning
DT - Defrag
etc.

File Mgmt - Backup
File Mgmt - Explorers
File Mgmt - Recovery

Sys Info - Information & Diagnostic
Sys Info - Stress Test/Benchmark

Any suggestions or changes for this idea??

First Steel,

You don't want me working on the XML's anymore?
----------------------------------------------------------------
Second I would like to see a Compression section. You used to have one and housed the app IZArc in it but now it is listed as an explorer and I don't if Explorer really describes a Compression app. Just an opinion.
----------------------------------------------------------------
Third a question on

Are you making the MENU under PROGRAMS like this?
Disk Tools - Backup/Cloning
Disk Tools - Defrag
or like this
Disk Tools (with a submenus inside Disk Tools of)
-Backup/Cloning
-Defrag

This way you can spell Disk Tools. I wouldn't abbreviate the names just use submenus as I did in the XML's I posted on my site.

The only prob with the category compression is that it will only contain one item, maybe if there are more than 1 app. Could we merge it with another category, for example

File management - Backup&Compression.

I think steel we could loose the tools at the end of system information, to keep that reduced. But with submenu's it shouldn't be that long (have to check on a 640x680 resolution to make sure it doesn't spill of the right hand side.

Therefore :-

• Antivirus
• Applications
• CD Burning Tools
• Disk Tools -
• ` Backup/Cloning
• ` Defrag
• ` Diagnostic
• ` Partition
• ` Security
• File Management -
• ` Backup&Compression
• ` Explorers
• ` Recovery
• Malware Tools
• Network Tools
• Password Tools
• Registry Tools
• Shell Features
• System Information -
• ` Information & Diagnostic Tools
• ` Stress Test/Benchmark Tools

Should there be two BACKUP areas? But yes Compression with Backup is a good solution.

Also we have a few situations where we use & and some where we use /.
I think we should go to one. I really don't care which.

Your right I think we need to use & . As the system may interprete a / as a new directory.

Yeah see what you mean about two backup areas !. Perhaps we should have the backup under disk tools and just have compression under file management?. The reason I suggested another backup under file management is for the program Autobackup, which grabs only certain files (outlook express , my docs etc). Perhaps we could sneak this into File Management - Recovery ?.

In which case the list would be as follows :-

Antivirus Tools (<- note tools added on end to match other entries)
Applications
CD Burning Tools
Disk Tools -
` Backup & Cloning
` Defrag
` Diagnostic
` Partition
` Security
File Management -
` Compression (<- Dropping Backup)
` Explorers
` Recovery (As backup dropped, Autobackup program is here instead ?)
Malware Tools
Network Tools
Password Tools
Registry Tools
Shell Features
System Information -
` Information & Diagnostic Tools
` Stress Test & Benchmark Tools

This seems to cover all app placements now, until that is a new one comes along !

Sounds good guys, awesome feedback. I'm really glad to see the users of the project work together to make it better. I've always welcomed suggestions since I started this project and I think it helps make the project better when "real" users workout suggestions. In no way am I trying to pass the work off, just always welcome to suggestions and feedback. I honestly rarely have the need to actually use this project in real life situations. I'm always so busy with my full time job, family, and working on the project (answering emails, adding new tools, updating the site, keeping an eye on the forum, etc.) that I have had little time to repair any PC's lately. Which is what I really love to do.

Anyways, everyone keep discussing this. I am sitting in the background, absorbing the feedback, implementing the changes in the project files, and offering my feedback on the suggestions.

Thanks steel !, I'll let lawson look over it as well and if we all agree with this structure we can start mapping the programs to it.

On a quick glance the only problem I can see with the programs is where to put the email programs ?

Looks good.

As far as the email tools I don't know. You could do one of two things. They are standard applications just like the browser and PDF viewer so putting them in APPS isn't a bad idea. They really are not tools for testing fixing and researching issues. They are more just standard applications for use if you want them. Just my opinion.

As steel is happy with the discussion I'm really surprised we don't have more communication going by others.

Also wanted to mention that for this project just because one app might only be in a dir it doesn't mean it shouldn't be in a dir. The dir describes it's purpose. Also in my case I add applications to the dir's. Like Compression I throw in 7zip for my personal use.

Lawson :- lol I forgot about apps !. That'll be fine in there.

We should define the progs to the categories now, does anyone have an upto date list of tools ?, or should we use the unassigned tools earlier in the post together with the list of tools on the homepage ?.

Well, once I'm at work tomorrow, I can just boot from the CD, write down all of the tools and send a list to you, LOL. I don't see any other way to be completely up-to-date with the included tools. Thanks for all of the work though on this subject!

Will you be moving some of the tools, as several similar tools appear in different categories at the moment.

File Management
Drive Eraser
Unstoppable Copier (This should be in file recovery)

System Tools
Disk Wipe
Eraser (Either Drive Eraser should be with these or vice versa)

HDD Diag
Testdisk
Recovery Tools
MBR Wizard

I think these 2 need to be in the same category as they do a similar function.

Lexun tools needs splitting and moving so that sector spy is with the file recovery tools and the cloning tools are also with similar software. At the moment they are lost in system tools.

At the moment there is no clear structure as similar tools are scattered all over the in different locations.

I would also have a category for tools that you can only run whilst Windows is working, not sure what you could call it to so as not to confuse people?
Run from Windows Only?

NTRegopt
Erunt
Hijackthis
etc....

We've not assigned the programs to the categories yet, littlBUGer is working to get a list of progs so we can discuss which categories they belong in.

I'm not sure about splitting groups of programs from one program as maintaining the progs will be difficult.

It would be cool to have a list of programs which run from within windows (I've not used the cd in this capacity yet). It would also be nice to keep a list of programs that don't fully work away from the main list of progs highlighting the fact there are know problems. (Again however not sure how hard this will be for steel to maintain.)

For ease of use all similar tools need to be together, which means the lexun tools need to be split, drive imager/cloner with the disk cloning tools and sector spy with the file recovery tools.

If your a novice you aren't going to go searching through all the menus to find lexun drive cloner if you put it within File Management - Recovery which is where sector spy needs to be. Clearly Drive Cloner and Drive Imager need to be in Backup/Cloning.

Antivirus Tools (<- note tools added on end to match other entries)
Applications
CD Burning Tools
Disk Tools -
` Backup & Cloning
` Defrag
` Diagnostic
` Partition
` Security
File Management -
` Compression (<- Dropping Backup)
` Explorers
` Recovery (As backup dropped, Autobackup program is here instead ?)
Malware Tools
Network Tools
Password Tools
Registry Tools
Shell Features
System Information -
` Information & Diagnostic Tools
` Stress Test & Benchmark Tools

Sorry not too familier with the lexun tools and what they offer, but if they perform vastly different functions within the same collection then yes, I agree we would need to split them.

How do you feel with the cat list so far stidyup, do you think we can catch all apps with this arrangement ?

When the list of programs arrives, we can define the progs within categories, but the one on the web is out of date and contains errors (caused by me !, not steel), so I think we should start again and ignore the list of tools on the web. Then everyone can have a say where each tool should sit, and well take the most popular choices for each.

I agree with Stidyup
Just because you have a list of applications that are made by the same company or are in the same suite doesn't mean we should organize them together for this project. I believe they should go to the category of their function.

Now I agree with Batfink

I also don't know the function of each tool so either we could put up a poll for each tool inside this (menus in CD) forum. This wouldn't be such a bad idea because it would live with the project forever. Always allowing those to vote. Or we create a new discussion and just have general discussion as this here. Or we let Steel decide to get it going for now and request a change if we feel differently.

Stidy could you provide more detail here. I'm confused a bit on this. There are tools that won't run in UBCD (which is Windows). They will only run when you are in the actual FULL OS. If this is the case then yes we need to do something. If they will run in UBCD then they should exist in the categories as is. If they will not then I think this should exist in a separate category in the list of tools and leave them out of the menu structure on the UBCD. You could do this.
Create 2 main menu structures.

- Will Run in UBCD
- Will not run in UBCD but in FULL Windows OS

Then you would mimic the same categories we have been working on for both main sections. Are there tools that would fit in both? If so I think we should leave them in the RUN IN UBCD but maybe add a NOTE. Or do the same for above. One * is run in both two ** will only run in the FULL OS.

Please clarify, if I'm not understanding you properly on this.

The menu structure is looking good.

Some tools can only be run with the full Win OS running.
NTRegopt can't be used within the PE environment as it will simply try to optimise the registry on the boot cd, but it can be run from the ubcd4win cd (running on top of the OS).

HijackThis is pointless within the PE environment as it will simply scan the processes running on the ubcd4win cd, but again it can be run from the ubcd4win cd whilst the OS is loaded. HijackThis is a tool which can only be used with the infected PC's OS running so it can scan what files/processes/reg entries are in use. You can use this information to clean the PC if you know what you are doing or post the log on one of the security forums.

I think you only need this Will not run in UBCD4Win but in FULL Windows OS or something similar, say at the bottom of the Menu structure. Otherwise your going to end up needing to navigate your way through loads of sub menus which will look a mess.

Well, I'm not too sure about a "will not run in PE" menu option.

But here is a list I compiled of the software that is included in the project:


I will continue to go through it and post what plugins aren't actually programs but add support for hardware, etc. Such as "sermouse" which give serial mouse support, "keyboard" allows you to map the keyboard for different languages, "usb" added better USB support, etc.

The programs will run in PE it's just that there's no benefit of whatsoever of actually using them in the PE Environment, so I think it would be helpful to tell user's that NTRegopt and HijackThis etc.... should only be run via ubcd4win on top of the running OS.

I totally agree. I don't think they should even exist in the UBCD MENU if they are not to be used in the BartsPE environment.

I do believe they should be in the List of Tools and maybe just a * by them and define that * means should be used outside of BartsPE environment.

HijackThis and NTRegopt are useful tools for trouble shooting and carrying out routine maintenance on a PC, just because they can't be used in PE doesn't mean they shouldn't be included, they are very useful to have on the CD.

It's just that I think there should be some way of telling novices that these tools aren't meant to be used from the PE environment.

Stidyup,
I'm not suggesting to remove them from the CD. I'm suggesting to keep them out of the MENU structure in PE. Still include them in the CD just do not give them a SHORTCUT to run in the PE environment.

I'd prefer to keep the shortcut then you can run it easily from the CD rather than having to go through explorer, find the CD, go through the folder structure, double click the .exe etc... It's just easier to run it from the menu.

It's a pity there isn't a way to disable the menu entries in PE but have them active if ubcd4win where run on top of the OS.

How are you doing this? VMware? You mean that you are actually running PE from within Windows. Please explain.

I think he means this. You see, the project has an autorun for the menu. So when you are booted into XP and you insert the CD the "UBCD4Win" menu will appear over your "start" button. You can then navigate through the menu and run almost any application included on the CD.

Also, running the project within Windows is also easy. I use and recommend Qemu. It doesn't offer all the features of say "MS Virtual PC" or similar products, but it is a great freeware solution. It doesn't give you access to the hard drives, but you do get network support. I use it for a quick test when changing menus, adding new tools, etc. As long as everything is available in the menu, and a new tool attempts to run, then I am satisfied that it will work. I then burn the ISO to CD and do real testing on the other PC's in my house.

Ok now I understand and sorry for my knowledge barrier.

You could put a ** next to the menu name for the specific program but I can't think of a way that this would tell the average joe that these are not meant to be run in PE. Of couse in the List of Tools you would define the NOTE but if they didn't visit the List of Tools this would be confusing.

So I would then recommend instead of the NOTES using the separate Menu structure.

Well, everything has been looking good thus far. I noticed that you posted the list of folders/plugins Steel, but that is not descriptive at all. I completely forgot that I do not have work today (holiday) so I will hopefully get the list done at my home tonight and post it. Sorry about the delays, but I will get it done. I will also try to post a similar list of tools that only work in Windows or those that work in both PE and Windows.

Slightly off topic is vmware is easy to set up?

I love it.
And yes I found it very easy to use and setup.

Yes, VMWare is very awesome and easy to use/setup.

Think we need to keep the menu in pe clean of software which will run in the host os to limit confusion.

Howz about adding an autorun.ini on the cd which launches a completly seperate menu of programs that can run from within the host os, even perhaps closing the auto load of the pe startmenu ?

LittlBUGer any chance of marking the *semi* working programs, so we can split them away from the 100% working (ie beta menu) ?

Yea, I can do that. I'll have to double-check everything and see what works fully and what doesn't. I'm not sure about removing items in the menu that only work in the host OS though, as they will eventually work in PE so there's no need to remove them. Plus, once the person is in the OS, we don't have to have two scripts or whatever to see where they are. The default menu will have the PE Only and PE+Windows, and Windows Only working programs all right there.

But what would stop a novice from running a program from within UBCD4WIN that is only designed to work from within the host os ? (or vice versa).

I think we need to concentrate primarily on the UBCD4WIN menu for now, and then add functionality later for host os only programs running as a bonus.

Personally I think we should keep the two menus seperate to avoid confusion, but thats just my opinion, what does everyone else think on this ?

Ok, think I want to end this right now. I appreciate the time, work, thought, etc. that this topic has brought. But I really don't like the seperation thing, yes true these applications do not work properly in BPE. We are still working to get them to be 100% functional in BPE if possible. Everything I have added to this project was intended to run within BPE. Some things do not work 100% at the moment and I hope that I or someone else will figure out how to get them at 100%.

So, I think the BETA menu is the best solution at the moment. LittlBUGer is already busy, so he doesn't really have the time to make a list for us. I think all tools that aren't at 100% have been mentioned somewhere in this post. RunScanner was a great addition to the project, but not the savior we need to get everything operational.

The whole purpose of this project is to help people, to provide them a great boot CD with minimal work. Things have gotten much more complicated than what I thought they would close to a year ago when I started this project. Damn, I need another vacation so I can actually have time to test more.

I could sense some tension. I have noticed this went from a simple suggestion to a giant bolder rolling down a hill. I want to say I'm sorry for one making you feel overwhelmed. As I think this is important you may not and that is ok. You need to work on what makes you enjoy the project most.

I know exactly what it is like to balance family and the love for what I do. So I give you a pat on the back for doing it because it is so tough and I can see how you look at this topic and think one I will never have the time and two who is making the choices here.

Also remember what I stated in this topic is Opinion. You make the final judgement bottom line. Maybe in the future you will reconsider and look over this topic again because I think it is a great idea for the future for those with less knowledge.

Oh and again thanks for providing what you have it is a great CD.

Yup, I didn't mean to sound to crazy last night. I appreciate the suggestions and though a lot of you have put into this topic, that's why I created the separate category for it. I think we have the menu layout pretty well down. Now we just need to get everything categorized and this topic could probably be closed. I've just offered my thoughts occasionally. Like I said before I really love the fact that you guys enjoy the project enough to spend this kind of time on making it better with your suggestions. I'm in the background observing, fine tuning my files, and adding more new tools waiting for the conclusion to this topic. So I can then change the menu structure and release a new version of this project.

Thanks steel. To close this thread off this is the Final, Set in Stone, Not to be changed menu structure :-
(untill it needs to be changed that is !)

• Antivirus Tools
• Applications
• CD Burning Tools
• Disk Tools -
• ` Backup & Cloning
• ` Defrag
• ` Diagnostic
• ` Partition
• ` Security
• File Management -
• ` Compression
• ` Explorers
• ` Recovery
• Malware Tools
• Network Tools
• Password Tools
• Registry Tools
• Shell Features
• System Information -
• ` Information & Diagnostic Tools
• ` Stress Test & Benchmark Tools

*** TOPIC CLOSED: CONTINUED HERE: http://www.ubcd4win.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=1570 ***